Jim Halpert and Pam Beesley’s first kiss is perhaps the most highly debated first kiss in the history of television.
Some logical fans of The Office swear Jim and Pam’s first kiss took place in Season 2, Episode 1, titled, “The Dundies.” But others claim that their drunken Chili’s kiss didn’t count, and argue that the two didn’t officially touch lips until 21 episodes later, during the Season 2 finale, “Casino Night.”
The first kiss debate recently divided fans of the show online, and things got so heated that Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey decided to weigh in on the latest episode of their Office Ladies podcast.
When discussing “The Dundies” episode of the show, the BFFs definitively shared whether or not they consider the Chili’s kiss to be the first. They also shared John Krasinski’s opinion on the matter, dished on other important Jim and Pam awards moments, and explained everything you ever wanted to know about that Chili’s. (Turns out they filmed in an abandoned restaurant that they decorated like a Chili’s.)
Though anyone watching the episode can clearly see that Jim and Pam kiss in that Chili’s, Fischer doesn’t consider it their first kiss.
“After she gets her Dundie, Pam kisses Jim on the lips,” Fischer admitted on the podcast before going contradicting herself and saying, “I did not consider this their first kiss.”
BUT, and there’s a big but, according to Fischer, Krasinski (who played Jim) wholeheartedly views it as Jim and Pam’s first.
“John said that Jim, who is not drunk, was very aware that they just kissed on the lips,” Fischer explained. “This was a whole conversation that we had off-camera.”
Fischer went on to explain that the reason she doesn’t consider it Jim and Pam’s first kiss is because Pam’s intention behind the kiss was supposed to be accidental. “The intention was that Pam was going for his cheek, and it was one of those moments where he moved his head in a way that I wasn’t expecting and I just followed through,” she said.
“That was what was in my head as Pam, so I wasn’t thinking that I was intending to kiss his lips,” Fischer went on. “Pam kind of doesn’t register it.”
Like Krasinski, Kinsey is team Chili’s First Kiss. “You planted one on him,” Kinsey told Fischer. “I agree with him though. I see both sides. I see for you as a drunk person that you just kind of hug and you’re a little bit sloppy, but I see for him as a sober person that this person he’s in love with just kissed him.”
“This person he’s in love with just kissed him.”
Fischer also said that a lot of fans wrote in to the podcast to ask why no one in the office made a big deal about the Chili’s kiss. In her mind, it’s because “it wasn’t really a kiss.” But Kinsey disagrees.
“In my mind everyone was talking about it at work,” Kinsey said. “Trust me. Angela Martin was sitting with Phyllis in a booth at that point, and I’m pretty sure she was like ‘mhmm did you see?'”
In fact, Fischer thought the kiss was so unfulfilling that she actually suggested filming an alternate ending to the episode, because at that point the cast and crew still thought the show could be cancelled.
“I said to Greg [Daniels,] I think just in case we get cancelled and this is the season finale we should film an alternate ending to this episode where Pam does tell Jim how she feels and they kiss for real,” Fischer said. “Not the Chili’s kiss, but the real kiss, just so that we could air it and we don’t leave people hanging.”
Daniels apparently said,”No. If they want to see what happens with Jim and Pam they’re just going to have to order more episodes. I don’t want to give them a choice.” The network thankfully did order more episodes, so fans were eventually blessed with Jim and Pam’s first real, meaningful kiss in “Casino Night.”
Though the “Casino Night” kiss is clearly the better of the two kisses, chronologically speaking it wasn’t Jim and Pam’s first. If you still need some convincing that their literal first kiss took place at Chili’s, please read my extremely thorough argument.
You can stream episodes of The Office on Netflix and follow along with the podcast every week on Earwolf, Apple Podcasts, or Stitcher.